Do you want more development in Spencer Smith Park on Burlington’s downtown waterfront? City councillors voted 4-3 this week to put the old Freeman Train Station in the park. It will go near the foot of Brant and Lakeshore, at street level with lower level washrooms walking out to the park.
Now councillors want your feedback before the issue comes to a final vote at city council March 22, 7 pm, at City Hall.
Proposed Freeman Station at Spencer Smith Park
Speak up for greenspace
I’ll personally be delegating to council against adding more development in Spencer Smith. If you’d like to add your support to my delegation please email me at mariannemeedward@bell.net (Your contact information will be kept confidential and you don’t need to attend or speak at the meeting).
But I’m aware there are different points of view on this issue. I’m interested in soliciting the broadest possible feedback because this concerns our waterfront.
Better alternatives
If we need washrooms in Spencer Smith, there are better locations than a prominent building, blocking views, on our main street. If we are going to preserve Freeman Station, there are more appropriate locations, including Ireland House Museum on Guelph Line, which is one of the options under consideration.
The museum already has an active educational and historical program for visitors and could incorporate the historic train station – maybe even display items related to Burlington’s rail history. This is a more relevant use for a heritage building than turning it into modern washrooms, and my delegation will ask councillors to support that option.
Residents speak
So what do you think? Email me at mariannemeedward@bell.net, or post a comment below.
The general concern I’ve heard so far is that the greenspace and openness of our waterfront park is being chipped away, and Freeman Station is one more example. Resident Doug Waller said it well:
“Not against permanent washrooms at the park, but make them as unobtrusive as you can. We don’t need any more development in this park. The pier when complete and the Discovery building are more than ample.
Parkland with few or no buildings
“Park as defined in my dictionary: ‘A piece of land with few or no buildings within or adjoining a town, maintained for recreational and ornamental purposes.’ There must be several other places in Burlington that this could be put. Spencer Smith Park is a jewel, please don’t destroy it,” said Doug in an email to councilors and the mayor, also copied to me.
Disappearing greenspace
Those sentiments were echoed by long-time resident Joe Vietch in his delegation to city councillors this week. He noted that if you keep building on the park, it’s no longer a park. Over the years, he has seen trees and greenspace disappear from the park as concrete walkways, the Discovery centre, and now the pier have been added.
Joe has attended most of the public meetings regarding development in the park and the downtown, including one last December that I also attended, hosted by the Ward 1 and Ward 2 councillors. Freeman station at that time was being proposed for the West end of Spencer Smith, an idea residents at that meeting opposed because it would take up greenspace and block views.
“Shortly after this meeting it was announced in the local paper that the station was not going in the park,” Joe noted in his delegation. “In my naivety I thought great, case closed. Not so. It is raising its ugly head again with these latest options.”
Speak out
Now it’s your turn to speak. Is there already too much development in Spencer Smith? Are there better places – and uses – for Freeman Station? Or do you support putting it in Spencer Smith Park? Leave a comment below, or send me an email mariannemeedward@bell.net and I’ll bring your views when I come to council March 22.
Marianne Meed Ward is creator/host of A Better Burlington, a online forum to discuss issues in our community and sponsor of the Save Our Waterfront campaign. She is running for Ward 2 city council in the Oct. 25 municipal election.
Read the staff report on options for Freeman Station here:
37 Comments
Not that I’m resistive to change…but….our park is stunning…can we please just leave as is? Public washrooms at the foot of Brant St…sounds weird.
Freeman Station is part of Burlington’s Heritage & should be preserved. However Spencer Smith Park is the wrong location.
The Station is part of transportation & as such the best idea I heard would be as a Ticket/Transit Centre located @ the bus depot across from the existing parking lot. If there are major problems with that location then I agree with the Ireland House location.
We don’t seem to be able to handle, creatively, any solution for Heritage things, however seem to be able remove them & replace them with modern structures which require as much if not more design to put in place.
Perhaps it should worked into future GO plans, such as a ticket/comfort/museum/information station. Burlington is, at some point going to be involved in linking with Metrolinx & as such should be many creative locations for the Station.
I really don’t want a building for washrooms or anything else to mar the view of the lake – I am tired of the encroaching on the lovely view. Not to mention that the washroom situation should have been satisfied when they build Spencers, could it have been lack of foresight. So Freeman station or some other building is not an option for me!!!
I think this is a fabulous location for this
precious piece of the past to find a home.
what better place than where it can be enjoyed by all! I think it will only enhance the park.
However…..the idea of using it as a “washroom” does not sit well with me, this building is a treasure and deserves more respect than a washroom….vandalism and grafitti and generalized filth are not how I want to see this building treated.
thumbs up on the lake location, down on use as a bathroom…..how about vintage ice cream shop as a use??
thanks! for the opportunity to voice, have
been watching and waiting for a long time for the fate of this building, I think it is one of a kind and have hoped that it will find its way into Burlingtons main stage where it belongs…..there is still plenty of lake view at the park.
Too many buildings will destroy the openness of the park.
Locate the Freeman Station in the parking lot of the present bus terminal. It ties in nicely with the architecture of the village square. Place the washrooms for the park under the gazebo.
Thanks for the opportunity to express an opinion.
I think that the Freeman station could contribute charm and character to Spencer Smith park but not at the Brant and Lakeshore location as a washroom facility. I can anticipate line ups of people outside the building during peak events. Usually where are there are line ups of people there are also increased amounts of garbage that don’t quite make it into the garbage bins and this would detract from the appearance of the Lakeshore area across from the sidewalk cafes that are a big draw for people in the summer.
The sidewalk cafes promote tourists and economy into the downtown area and blocking the view of the lake from these businesses could be detrimental.
A better location for the Freeman building might be at the foot of Lakeshore and Maple and not at street level, but closer to the circle area on the North grassy area. A small tourist business (such as bike rentals) could be housed there.
There are so many families and children that enjoy Spencer Smith park and the childrens’ play area, I’m sure a business promoting more activities in the park would attract more people to enjoy its beauty.
I would love to see this Station preserved but please do not put it in Spencer Smith Park. I love the openess of the Park and we do not need anymore buildings on the lakefront. There are plenty of other places for the Station to be located.
Freeman station at spencer NO
unobstrusive washrooms YES
open space YES
I believe that keeping it simple is the right solution. The Freeman station is a part of Burlington’s past, but the waterfront is no place for it. While it is a “cute” structure, it would be out of context in a park centrally located on Burlington’s waterfront.
I am concerned about the increased loss of “space” at Spencer Smith. As far as the need for washrooms in the park goes, why wasn’t this taken care of when the Discovery Landing was built?? Or are those washrooms only for the elite who can afford to eat at Spencers??
Yet again, another example of a lack of forethought and planning by the city.
I agree that washrooms are needed at the park, but it can and should be done discretely. To use the historic old train staion seems sacriligeous. It is far more appropriate to place it at Ireland House.
I DO NOT THINK WE NEED ANOTHER BUILDING ON OUR TINY LITTLE PARK WE CALL SPENCERS!!! HERE’S AN IDEA, WHY DON’T WE FINISH THE PIER FIRST?
BOB CARRUTHERS
Save the building but not at Spencer Smith and not as a washroom facility. The decision regarding the train station has been put off for too long. Let’s get it settled. I’ve noticed washrooms at Discovery Landing. Are they available when this facility is open? Washrooms at the east end of the park would likely be welcomed but they would have to be monitored regularly to avoid certain unwanted activities, graffitti, dirtiness.
No No No. Not in our beautiful park! I’m sure there are many appropriate places in Burlington for this station. Many have been previously mentioned. I think the station should be preserved but not at Spencer Smith Park!
I thought the photo at the first of your letter made the historic train station look very comfortable in that location. Do any of you people ever go to Spencer Smith Park…why it is full of events most every weekend in the summer. And when not being used for Rib Fest, Art Shows and the Sound of Music it is full of families enjoying the waterfront. Maybe it could be used for more than one function, ie when the pier is finished it could be where folks come to pay for the use of a daily slip, ice cream shop upstairs gets my vote. If you have small children or kids of all ages for that matter a bathroom can never be too handy for a Mom with one child that has to go “Quick”. My concern is that the city does not take so long to make a decision about relocating the train station that we loose out on the promised Government money that expires in 2011 if I read that correctly.
Save the building, but NOT at Spencer Smith and NOT as washroom! Tacky, tacky!!
I’m very much in favour of retaining green space but I’m also concerned that we’re turning into an opposition to anything city management suggests. Consensus is almost impossible and it can become too easy just to oppose any decision. In fact some will always oppose any proposal. The old station is not a high rise. It could be made an attractive and useful piece of the park.
Like the approval of towers at Old Lakeshore Road, City Hall is making a decision on the waterfront without proper public consultation – despite their recent talk of ‘improving’ community engagement.
The City reveals their lack of vision for the waterfront and the downtown area. What seems to guide City Council is their desperate need to plunk the train platform somewhere, which supersedes any commitment to protect Spencer Smith’s green space and public views.
The strong reaction against the Freeman Station in Spencer Smith Park reflects unfinished business. Many citizens remain unhappy about the City adding the hulking Discovery building in the Park and reduced parking access.
I am not in favour of locating the old train station in Spencer Smith park for any reason. Let us try amd maitain as much open space as possible.
John Pegg
We enjoy our glimpse of the lake. Look at Toronto’s waterfront. (where is the lake?) Huh !!
I love to walk my little dog and have my grandson race back and forth along the embankment.
Please do not add more buildings to our waterfront.
I am still not happy about the restaurant being built, taking up more green space, so badly needed in our built-up communities. I am not against progress but let it be the right kind of advancement in our community.
Maggie Pentecost
In principal, agree, the Freeman Station must be ‘saved’, but Spencer Smith Park is not the right place. Wouldn’t it make MORE sense to link it into one of the ‘GO station’ locations, maybe Aldershot or Guelph Line? That would a)give people coming/going something to historically consider relative to the area, b)there’s ample parking, so that wouldn’t be an issue for ‘tourism’ c)it would generate revenue for both transit, and the municipality, d)it would ‘link’ the whole notion of ‘transport’ in the minds of transient citizenry …
If ‘washroom facilities’ are needed for the park – and I wonder are they REALLY needed – (How have we MANAGED for so long without????) – I suggest the VERY basic minimum closely aligned with the Pier. Leave the park, as such, alone. There’s no other place like it on the lake at the moment.
I also tend to agree that the PIER should be FINISHED first, before taking on additional costly replacement/refurbishing ventures. At present, the much heralded pier is turning into an overpriced and embarrassing boon-doggle …
I agree we should retain the greenspace in spencer smith park, an option for the station could be to place it on the beachstrip in place of the present snackshack. and put in washrooms, showers, and a snackbar along with a historical display also. perhaps lease out some of the floor space to one of the local eateries for the summer. This could really draw in the boaters and sun worshippers on the weekends.
Please leave our park as it is. It is such a beautiful place as is.
Spencer Smith Park and it’s greenspace should be preserved.
It is not the appropriate location to relocate Freeman Station and I also believe that Freeman Station whereever else it could be located is deserving to be better than a washroom.
Washrooms are already available in the Discovery Center at Spencer Smith Park.
Did you ever actually use the sspace that is proposed for the station location? for a picnic or to watch an event perhaps? It is unused dark space against the retaining wall that will now gain a valuable purpose and will be used by many when they visit the park or wait for a bus (out of the rain).
I agree, for the most part, by the conclusions of Judy Broci (see comments posted March 05).
I have absolutely NO reservations about the tasteful re-location of the historic Freeman Station at Lakeshore Road/Spencer Smith Park. None whatsoever.
Having viewed the comments of many on this site I have to ask: did any of you people even read the architect’s report?
It is posted on this page.
Allow me to summarize some key points that have been mischaracterized by several on this site:
Kimberly Hatala writes “Public washrooms at the foot of Brant St…sounds weird”.
That’s because it is not a component of the architect’s preferred location. Site B is NOT at the foot of Brant it is in fact closer to the intersection of Lakeshore and Locust Street.
Our site host, Marianne Meed Ward, states above “This is a more relevant use for a heritage building than turning it into modern washrooms”.
??
Is not the staff report clear that there is NO PROPOSAL to turn the historic station into washrooms? It reads verbatin: “(the)proposed location would facilitate incorporation of much needed washrooms for this end of the Park within the proposed new basement level of the structure.”
This is much different than the conversion of the Station to washroom facilities.
Assuming that this is a free speech forum and that my comments are not blocked before getting to print I have to surmise that this type of rhetoric is no more than political propaganda and fearmongering.
It is unfathomable to think that a one storey, semi-porous building, at grade, in a poorly utilized section of Lakeshore Road can be conceived of as something that will “destroy the openness of the park” (John McGibbon) nor does it ” supersede any commitment to protect Spencer Smith’s green space and public views” (Peter).
The other perspective, if you are game to hear it, is that this IS a good and professionally-preferred location.
Those that took in the architect’s comments would hear that:
-
CONTINUED:
Those that took in the architect’s comments would hear that:
- it can create a significant point of interest on Lakeshore Road
- it will not obscure lake views to a significant degree greater than the existing tree canopy
- it can be a hub for community gatherings, notably during festival season, and a welcome centre for those coming to our core from the pier in the future
Will this proposed Freeman Station site die at Council? Almost certainly. It was the slimmest of votes that brought it this far.
Will Marianne delegate agianst it? Yes, she’s professed this already.
Will it be a victory when it becomes deadwood for our community? I think not.
To the contrary I think it will be a sad loss. I’ll mourn its passing and I might be alone. But I will not be consoled by the fact that it was backwardness and NIMBYism by a handful of armchair critics (playing hero behind their keyboards but not brave enough to show up and learn from the professionals)that put the nail in this projects coffin – NOT City Council.
Censure my thoughts if you must.
Ian Braden
The councillor for the downtown ward – who voted for the Station at the Park – acknowledges that the Station has limited commercial use. He writes that with only “a reasonable chance of success for four or maybe six months of the year, it’s hard to see how any commercial use could survive from October through April isolated on the south side of Lakeshore Road.”
I’d expect the Station would similarly struggle for viability over the same months if limited to community uses. And it’d become an ongoing cost to the taxpayers.
It will be a building searching for a purpose. So why again did the councillor vote for this?
fyi … there is an architects’ drawing of the proposed ‘transformation’ of the station on display at the top of the steps at the west door of Spencer’s Landing/Discovery Centre …
Please Don’t Put The Old Train Station In Our Park
In ten years time
After years of neglect
Because there wasn’t enough tax money
For upkeep and security
When the old train station
Has become a dirty, peeling, view-blocking eyesore
And a hangout
For unsavoury and dangerous activities
Who on council
Will be proposing
To pay more tax money to remove it
So that we can regain
The lovely, green and open and safe
Space
We have now.
Paul and Ruth Wilson
I respond to a contributor, Ian Braden, who has commented inappropriately to those of us who are against putting the old train station in our park. He dismisses our concerns about the linking of the train station to washroom facilities as being nothing more than political propaganda and fear mongering. He insults us with his invective and assumptions, first that none of us has read the architect’s report, second that we are backward, third that we are against it because we don’t want it in our backyard and finally that we are armchair critics playing hero behind our keyboards not brave enough to show up and learn from the professionals. It is exactly this kind of name calling and verbal abuse that lends a wrong and ugly tone to any civic debate. I ask Mr. Braden to restrict his comments, should he need to make any more, to the issue that we are all struggling to understand instead of expressing his disapproval, through insults, of anyone with a point of view different than his.
Paul Wilson
Please allow me to retort, Paul Wilson.
It is regrettable that you feel my comments and point of view are inappropriate. Have I not a right also to opine?
True, I dismiss your your concerns about the linking of the train station to washroom facilities for factual reasons. The Ward 2 Councillor has epressed the following publicly – “The new proposal is to build ample washroom facilities in the dell area, backing against the retaining wall, and then place the station structure on top, facing Lakeshore Road. The station itself will not be a washroom.”
Again I take issue with the blind NIMBYism as there are facts that back up my assertions (I trust the professional opinion of the architect).
The washroom structure is proposed to occupy an area where at present there are some shrubs, a small to medium sized Norway Maple and some decorative rocks. By any measure the specific site is uninteresting and in need of help. The visual impact on the willow dell would be minimal.
Further, the size and style of the structure are appropriate for the scale of the site.
The proposed station site fits nicely against an existing lookout point and beside the Centennial Steps. The view of the lake at this point is limited by the trees in the dell, particularly when they are in full leaf.
The City’s architect made two very interesting points about our view of the lake: 1) The view along the Spencer Smith Park stretch of Lakeshore Road is a wide-angle and panoramic. 2) The view somehow still lacks a point of interest – something the station would provide.
If I were not interested in educated civic debate I might not have logged onto this site. It portends to be one that permits informed dialogue.
The tone of many comments throughout this site is often dismissive of the efforts of our public officials as backward, regressive and yes even “stupid”. So if I observe that there is unwarranted bellyaching at play I’d like the chance to call a spade a spade.
Ian Braden
Save the station, of course, but please, do not place it at the corner of Brant and Lakeshore in Spencer Smith Park.
In speaking with the Ward 2 Councillor this morning, he admits that the financial “tail is wagging the dog” and that to realize provincial funding for this project, it must be completed by March 31, 2011, so if we want to “save this thing” we basically had better get moving on the project.
The reasons that he shared with me for supporting the placement at Spencer Smith are that:
i) it (the building) “looks good”
(in the artist’s drawing, I’m assuming);
ii) the willow trees obstruct the view anyway
(they certainly don’t today);
iii) the value of the current view, as he sees it, is that it’s a panoramic one, and the station would not obscure the panoramic view
(this is a matter of opinion);
iv) the park lacks a point of interest, and the train station could be it
(also, a matter of opinion. I’d argue that the lake itself is quite a point of interest).
As a downtown resident, who knows the park and its surroundings well, I find this simplistic thinking very challenging, especially when I’m privileged to view the lake, from this vantage point, during every season of the year…when the willows don’t obstruct the view…and anyway, what’s wrong with looking at willow trees? I won’t go on with my retorts to the councillor’s points, but I believe it’s very clear that all could be easily countered with rational and clear thinking. You be the judge.
Shame on our politicians for even thinking of encroaching upon the limited green space that we have in our downtown core.
I would encourage all who are concerned about this project to contact the councillors who voted in the affirmative on this issues. They are Councillors Thoem, D’Melio, Craven and Dennison.
Janice Hambrock
Dear Councillors Thoem, Dennison, D’Amelio and Craven,
Please don’t put the old train station in our park. We think the statue of the sailor and the monument to Canadians who fought in wars on our behalf should not have as a backdrop this building with its proposed washroom area when looking at the statue from the lakeside of the park. We do not believe the building will look good even if the artist’s drawing makes it appear so, we think it will look out of place and having inspected the actual building we know that it is larger than the artist’s drawings make it appear and we don’t think it is an aesthetically pleasing structure for our park especially if it becomes a commercial enterprise with the attendant signs and lights. It has no historical connection to the Brant St. end of the park. We find the argument that the view is already obstructed by willow trees incomprehensible as those trees are part of the nature of the park and beautiful to look at themselves and do not totally obstruct any further view especially for the months when the leaves are down. We believe that the building would disrupt the panoramic view now visible. We do not believe that the park lacks a point of interest, it has that already in and of itself and when you are able to see beyond the perimeter of the parkland to the lake you have a complete and satisfying point of interest that is unobstructed. Please don’t destroy a portion of our beautiful park.
Paul and Ruth Wilson
It is so sad to see the amount of missing information on web sites like these. While I respect the right of free speech, it really needs to be informed free speech. The Freeman Station went to vote last night and was turned down because of a lack of understanding. Freeman station was to be PARTLY washrooms and partly something else that was still to be determined. The addition of the Freeman station would have brought more people down to the beautiful Burlington Waterfront but instead we are going to lose the money provided by the government. What a waste of such needed funds because people would rather argue then continue to develop the beautiful place that downtown Burlington has become. This would have brought some ever necessary money to the downtown businesses. And we all know money creates jobs and many people are searching for jobs in this tough economic time. I should hope the next time something like this comes up, people will look at the broader picture and not be so nit picky. I have lived in Burlington all my life and have enjoyed the downtown so much more in the past few years then ever before. I just hope the loss of the Freeman station isn’t a sign of things to come.
In regards to a new location for the Freeman Station.
Would it not be possible to put it down by the Burlington Canal on the old railway bed.I am sure there is more than enough room.
It could be used for a railway and shipping museum and also have washrooms.
Don Kirby
I am definitely opposed to the Freeman Railway Station being located in Spencer Smith Park. Please no more buildings in this park.
My feeling is if this station is to be preserved,a great location would be on the old rail line along the beach strip, between the Beach way Park and the canal.
If this is not a suitable site to the majority then my next preference would be send it to Toronto as they are asking for it to become part of their railway museum. This would be a more visible site to a larger audience.